iPhone support?

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iPhone support?

Postby rdb » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:14 pm

It appears that David just checked in some initial iphone stuff, w.i.p.:
Code: Select all
Apr 17 20:11:43 <CIA-54>   drwr * dtool/ (15 files in 3 dirs): initial iphone stuff, w.i.p.
Apr 17 20:12:26 <CIA-54>   drwr * panda/src/ (38 files in 6 dirs): initial iphone stuff, w.i.p.


Wow, if this isn't an extended April Fool's joke, David, you're awesome. :D

I gotta get myself an iPhone / iPod touch :)
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Postby jhocking » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:10 pm

This would be so amazing! I was already thinking I'd need to get comfy with Unity or some other engine to play with iPhone development eventually, this would spare me the bother.
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Postby astelix » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:26 pm

a-ha! here's why his presence here in the forums is decreased noticeably lately. It would be an outstanding addition indeed!
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Postby drwr » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:45 pm

Hah, you caught me. Yep, that's what I've been working on; making progress, but still got more to go.

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Postby birukoff » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:20 pm

:shock: Panda rocks!
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Postby ZeroByte » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:16 am

Is the plan for the iPhone support for the programming to still be done mainly in python or is it going to be some sort of objective-c interface?
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Postby drwr » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:52 am

Python. Basically the IPhone is like a little Mac, and we don't require Objective-C when writing Panda apps on the Mac.

Objective-C is necessary only for calls into Cocoa and similar interface libraries. Since Panda normally handles all these low-level calls anyway, there's no reason to burden the application programmer with Objective-C (unless he chooses that language, of course).

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Postby ThomasEgi » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:31 am

hm.. so panda will run on ARM stuff too? iphone aside this should include the soon-to-appear ultracheap netbook, right?
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Postby ZeroByte » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:33 am

That sounds great! I asked cause I think read somewhere while researching on python for the iPhone that something in the apple developers agreement restricted the use of python on the iPhone.
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Postby Deny0 » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:33 am

Wow nice. Will it be able to enter iPhone's core, to for exp. overclock/underclock the iPhone to make sure it will always make 31 FPS?
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Postby drwr » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:58 am

so panda will run on ARM stuff too?
No reason Panda can't be compiled for ARM, just like any other C++ program. We already compile for i386 and ppc, and we used to compile for SGI's MIPSPro chipset as well.

something in the apple developers agreement restricted the use of python on the iPhone.

I think the line you're thinking of is from paragraph 3.3.2:
No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).

At first blush, this appears to preclude the use of all interpreted languages. But the key word there is "downloaded." The point is not to exclude the use of an interpreted language within an application, but to exclude the production of an application that can be used to download and run new code that was not part of the original application. That is, Apple doesn't allow applications that run other applications, presumably because that interferes with Apple's ability to charge fees on a per-application basis.

I don't think there's anything in that sentence that precludes a self-contained application from running an interpreter on itself. (And indeed, it would be difficult to define such a behavior precisely anyway.)

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Postby King_of_Z » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:29 pm

Panda rocks!


You're right. And here I was thinking, "How can it get any better..."
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Postby drwr » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:32 pm

Some tangible progress:
Image

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Postby ZeroByte » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:13 pm

You sir, are the win.
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Postby ThomasEgi » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:58 am

*drops his jaw*... has it been a week or so???
this is insanely cool.
till now i never wanted to buy an iphone.. right now i have this... sudden urge.... aarggh :D

really nice job david.. really nice. how about accessing the webcam and the acc-sensors via python?
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Postby aurilliance » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:19 am

wow!!!
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Postby rdb » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:33 am

The good old rusty triangle! Wow, that's awesome indeed, David!

I'm wondering if we also should have an iPhone download on the download page, later, when the port is finished.

ThomasEgi wrote:how about accessing the webcam and the acc-sensors via python?

Haha, I think getting Python integration and the touchpad working first is slightly more important :)
About the webcam: it appears OpenCV works for iPhone, so that would be just a matter of compiling with OpenCV, I guess.
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Postby lethe » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:59 am

Hmmm, the iPhone has multi-touch right? So to get it working panda will need a multitouch interface... and this makes me wonder if its possible to get such an interface working under Linux or Windows at well? I'ld be rather curious to see what kinds of interface could be created by plugging two mice into a computer, one per hand. Or even just good old fashioned split screen multi-player.

Oh, and this iPhone support, especially how quickly its coming together, is sweet:-)
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Postby rdb » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:08 am

Sounds to me like either the mouse interface would have to be extended to support multiple clicks at the same time, but maybe it would be easier if a new sort of device was created that just throws an event for every click, or so, or supports polling for multiple clicks.
I'd indeed be very interested to see what can be done with it. I'd be almost tempted to buy an iPhone myself.
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Postby jhocking » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:42 am

ThomasEgi wrote:really nice job david.. really nice. how about accessing the webcam and the acc-sensors via python?


*suddenly imagines artoolkit on an iphone, gets dizzy*
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Postby drwr » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:58 am

Keep in mind that the iPhone hardware isn't that impressive, after you've been playing with PC's. It will render triangles, a few of them at least, but certainly not the lush scenes you're used to. Look at the existing 3-d iPhone apps--most of them have very limited 3-d geometry, just a few hundred polys or so in the foreground, and then a lot of flats in the background. Still, it will be fun to play with.

Note that an iPod touch might be a less expensive purchase option than a full iPhone.

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Postby barbeirovsk » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:24 pm

That's really cool!

But I wonder if it would not have any legal issues. I've read some where around - I don't remember - that some game engines which deploys for iPhone, and run on platforms that not Mac, might be sued by Apple... well, i hope it not be true, but is better check it out.

Awesome work David!
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Postby RPGKHFan » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:19 pm

You can only make IPhone games on a Mac. There is no way to make a game for the IPhone on Windows, only Intel Macs can deploy it and use the SDK.
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Postby rdb » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:21 pm

Well, it's possible to develop for iPhone from Linux (I'm sure also Windows) but I don't know if it's then possible to send to your iPhone without jailbreaking it.
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Postby RPGKHFan » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:29 pm

Oh, it is? I thought it said Intel Mac OSX only on the site. That must mean only the tools, or I would've tried to get it for my PPC Mac or Windows. However, if you can use it on Windows, that would be amazing. Are you sure Apple supports it on Windows, or is it just ported over by someone? Oh, and you win an award for fastest reply to a post I have ever seen. Like, I wouldn't even have time to find the post in the amount of time it took you to respond.
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Postby rdb » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:54 pm

It's not officially supported by Apple, it requires jailbreaking your iPhone which isn't illegal, but removes your warranty.
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Postby drwr » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:54 pm

There's a lot of misinformation and confusion on this subject.

There are two ways to develop for the IPhone. The first way is to use Apple's official IPhone SDK, which is the only way to get your app distributed via Apple's App Store. It is also the only way to get your app onto a non-jailbroken IPhone. This official SDK does indeed run on Intel Mac only. It also costs you $99 per year, for the right to ship your compiled apps onto your (or anyone else's) IPhone.

Or you can jailbreak your IPhone and use the open-source toolchain, or some combination of open-source tools of your choice. Once the IPhone is jailbroken, you can use gcc to compile for it and then ship your apps to the phone via ssh and scp. This pipeline works from Linux, Windows, PPC Macs, or just about anything you've got. You can even compile directly on the IPhone itself.

Legal issues with the latter pipeline are murky, of course. You can find lots of people on the internet--none of them lawyers--enthusiastically espousing arguments for and against jailbreaking. For myself, I will remain neutral on the topic.

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Postby RPGKHFan » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:59 pm

So, then I couldn't use this IPhone support with the official SDK and release my game on the app store even if I'm on an Intel Mac? Or is there any way that this could be supported using Python?
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Postby drwr » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:01 pm

I do plan to support the official SDK using this, so you'll be able to develop in Panda using Python, then distribute your app on the App Store. But, you'll need to have an Intel Mac, and pony up the $99.

We can also support the open-source toolchain, for the rest of you.

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Postby RPGKHFan » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:29 pm

That'll be great. This is awesome, great job.
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