iPhone support?

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Postby SomeCallMeTim » Mon May 31, 2010 5:10 pm

drwr wrote:There's no marriage of Panda3D and Python.


That's excellent.

But this has been hashed to death: Apple's license is not about technical restrictions, it's about market share.


Sorry, yes, I have to agree on all counts. No need to rehash.

As I mentioned, a C++-only game based on Panda 3d would be hard for them to detect, and as you mentioned, it may not even be in violation of their agreement.

Of course, we can continue to provide illegitimate iPhone support. That's less exciting to developers, of course.


Yes, but...a lot of this is beside the point for me, since I want to write Android games, and I don't want to use Python, so I'm looking at potentially using your OpenGL ES support and parts of your 3d pipeline. The ability to rebuild my game(s) for iPhone would be a bonus, but not strictly necessary.

Is all of the OpenGL ES support you mentioned above available in the current source package, and/or CVS? And the iPhone support that does exist--is that already checked in as well, or is that only on your system?
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Postby drwr » Mon May 31, 2010 9:32 pm

Is all of the OpenGL ES support you mentioned above available in the current source package, and/or CVS? And the iPhone support that does exist--is that already checked in as well, or is that only on your system?

Everything is in CVS.

If you get a working Android port going, we'd love to know about it, and share it with the world. :)

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Postby ShinjiHiko » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:40 pm

drwr wrote:There's been a delay due to Apple's new iPhone Developer License, which explicitly forbids the use of any language other than C, C++, or Objective-C (which presumably includes Python).

Feel free to write a nasty letter to Steve Jobs.

David


http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/11/apple-eases-up-on-restrictions-on-interpreted-code-in-iphone-developer-agreement

Looks like Panda3D for the iPhone is possible again.
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Postby drwr » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:24 pm

Hmm, that's good news, though maybe not good enough: "an Application may use embedded interpreted code . . . if such use is solely for providing minor features or functionality."

Certainly writing the application entirely in Python would constitute more than "minor features or functionality."

This change seems to be directed at apps that use internal embedded interpreters to drive a small part of the game logic, and is meant to specifically exclude games that are entirely written in a language such as Python.

Also, it is increasingly clear that the philosophical drive of Apple's licensing is to forbid the use of multi-platform development tools, such as Panda3D. Apple wants to limit developers to using tools that support only Apple products.

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Postby ShinjiHiko » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:33 pm

drwr wrote:Hmm, that's good news, though maybe not good enough: "an Application may use embedded interpreted code . . . if such use is solely for providing minor features or functionality."

Certainly writing the application entirely in Python would constitute more than "minor features or functionality."


The real test is if they continue to allow Unity3D games to be approved. If so there should be no problem allowing Panda3D games. In Unity3D the JavaScript/C# is compiled directly into native ARM code.

Anyway. I'm really a complete newbie when it comes to compiling stuff. Are there any basic steps you can give me that would allow me to compile Panda for the iPhone on my MacBook?

If I can't use Python I'll use C++. But I would like to play around with Panda3D on the iPhone. Ideally if I cannot use Python I'd like to interface with Panda3D directly in Objective-C.

I figure it won't hurt to try :)
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Postby drwr » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:57 pm

Hum, well, a lot of the momentum on the Panda3D/iPhone project has been lost recently. You can still build it for iPhone, but it will be an effort, and it might not be the best place to get started if you're not already experienced with building large C++ projects.

You need to use ppremake to build for iPhone. You could start by getting the Panda3D source and first using ppremake to build it for your local development environment. If that goes well, then try to build it for iPhone.

To do this, install the iPhone Developers SDK from Apple, and add:
Code: Select all
#define BUILD_IPHONE iPhoneOS
#define HAVE_GLES 1
#define GLES_LIBS

to your Config.pp. You'll also need to obtain build any third-party tools you want, like libjpeg or libpng, for iPhone. But you can omit these at first, just to get started. You might need to explicitly turn all of these off with "#define HAVE_JPEG" and so on for each package.

If you want to run Python apps, you'll also have to compile the Python interpreter for iPhone. This is surprisingly difficult, because the Python codebase isn't designed for cross-compilation (it wants to build the interpreter and then immediately run it to build some more, but this isn't possible in a cross-compilation environment).

If you want to run just C++ or Objective-C apps, though, you should be able to do this directly from the Panda build.

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Postby powerpup118 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:53 pm

Hi, thought I should point out that sometime today (or yesterday) apple released a statement saying

In particular, we are relaxing all restrictions on the development tools used to create iOS apps, as long as the resulting apps do not download any code. This should give developers the flexibility they want, while preserving the security we need.

this is from ipodtouchfans

this means we could in theory develop panda applications for the iphone, which would be especially cool if we can manage to get python to work on it, as well.Panda would be like the only competitor to the "Unreal Engine on Iphone" demon god thingy..

would be neat :D[/url]
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Postby drwr » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:05 pm

Oh! This is huge! Apple has rejoined the land of the sane. And, yes, it appears that Panda3D + Python is once more legitimately allowed on the iPhone.

Let's let the iPhone project resume. :)

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Postby Anon » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:26 am

That means no packages for iphone, right?

Also, are you sure you can trust them? By their stupid tactics they can restrict it again after few months.
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Postby ShinjiHiko » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:07 pm

This is great news. I think Panda3D would be a great open-source alternative to some of the already existing engines out there.

Anon wrote:That means no packages for iphone, right?

Also, are you sure you can trust them? By their stupid tactics they can restrict it again after few months.


I doubt it. I think they learned from their antics with Adobe. They took a lot of bad press for it, I don't think they'll want to repeat that. Let's try not to be pessimistic and take what we can get 8)
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Postby powerpup118 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:25 pm

I know apple makes lots of silly rules, I doubt they'd go back on a press statement they themselves made though.. :wink:

and if they do.. wow :shock:
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Postby treeform » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:53 am

drwr, so you are resuming iPhone project or just inviting us to resume it?
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Postby drwr » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:12 pm

I will resume it eventually, when I get around to it among the many other projects that require my attention. :)

But as with any active projects in Panda3D, the invitation is always extended to contribute by anyone interested in doing so. :)

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Postby tallmystcarpet » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:03 am

Indeed, a good resume is needed here!
Also, an unknown developer can't put any game on the IPhone store without Apple's approval. Not speaking about the 99$ for being a registered Apple developer but when your app/game is finished, you must provide them with an XCode project and wait for their OK.
At least, it was the case a year ago!
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Postby Hypnos » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:04 pm

very good news indeed :-)
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Postby Sothh » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:22 am

This is great!

Although I don't have an iPhone, I know a lot of people that do. It would be great to be able to create games for this market.
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Then...

Postby Lalo » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:29 am

Hi!!! good new year!!! Well... mmm then, I have a question can I develop applications for iphone (locked) in Panda3D????
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Re: Then...

Postby powerpup118 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:21 pm

Lalo wrote:Hi!!! good new year!!! Well... mmm then, I have a question can I develop applications for iphone (locked) in Panda3D????


Currently you can only develop Panda3D applications for the iphone if you have a vast knowledge of C++ and own a mac with the iphone developer kit.

In other words, "It's still in development"
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Postby rootWOLF » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:01 am

at which release you going to plan to have the iphone support implemented?
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Postby drwr » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:52 pm

When it is done. Since no one is actively working on it at the moment, it's hard to guess when that will happen.

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Postby DangerOnTheRanger » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:59 pm

It's already in CVS, so I'd expect iPhone functionality to be in the buildbot version, or the next version of Panda.
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Postby rootWOLF » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:32 am

cool thanx!
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Postby GrizzLyCRO » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:17 am

DangerOnTheRanger wrote:It's already in CVS, so I'd expect iPhone functionality to be in the buildbot version, or the next version of Panda.


Is that true?
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Postby DangerOnTheRanger » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:08 am

AFAIK, it is. Better ask rdb or drwr to make sure, though.
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Postby rdb » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:22 pm

Basic iPhone support has been in CVS for a while now, but it's still rudimentary and it's not straightforward to build.
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Postby drwr » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:24 pm

There's nothing new in CVS. The only iPhone support there is the same experimental support that's been there since Panda3D 1.6 or so.

As I said a few posts up: no one is actively working on this at the moment. If anyone is interested in doing so, or knows someone who is, we'd love to hear from you.

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Postby zordlyon » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:02 pm

Hi people, i'm thinking adquire a Iphone4 but i like program in Panda3d and i read this post and i have the question Panda3d work fine with the plataform of Iphone?

If yes, how i can run an aplication of Panda3D on Iphone?
And i can create all the aspects and shadows on a Game and it will run on Iphone? or Iphone doesn't support?

Thanks for answers,
André.
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Postby drwr » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:20 pm

As the most recent posts in this thread indicate, Panda is not really supported on the iPhone. There is some experimental, but incomplete, iPhone support.

If you want more, you will have to be tech-savvy enough to provide it yourself.

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Postby zordlyon » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:24 pm

drwr wrote:As the most recent posts in this thread indicate, Panda is not really supported on the iPhone. There is some experimental, but incomplete, iPhone support.

If you want more, you will have to be tech-savvy enough to provide it yourself.

David


Hum thanks David, and with Android its the same thing?

Thanks,
André.
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Postby DangerOnTheRanger » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:39 pm

zordlyon wrote:
drwr wrote:As the most recent posts in this thread indicate, Panda is not really supported on the iPhone. There is some experimental, but incomplete, iPhone support.

If you want more, you will have to be tech-savvy enough to provide it yourself.

David


Hum thanks David, and with Android its the same thing?

Thanks,
André.


I of course can't speak for David, but I think so. I think if you want your Panda game to work on mobile devices right now, you have 2 options (as I see it):
  • Port Panda to the mobile OS you want your game to run on. This benefits the Panda community as a whole
  • Design/refactor your code so it isn't completely reliant upon Panda, and write a backend for your game that uses some library (like PyGame + PyOpenGL, or some custom C\C++) that does work on the mobile OS you want your game to run on. This is the option I'm currently going with, as it's easier for me, as I don't know C++ to well (I also think it's good OO practice to do this in general, but I digress...)

Neither option is particularly easy (the latter especially so if you've already written some code, but this wasn't the case for me), but they're both worth it, if you want your game to work on mobile devices.
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