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Naith

Postby lethe » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:43 am

Some of you may remember the discussion from some time ago where it was proposed to make an 'awesome game' - see the thread http://www.panda3d.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=6140. From this discussion a number of us, specifically me, rdb and aurilliance went off to create such an entity, but unfortunately the effort stalled, primarily because of time.

Despite it having stalled there is still a fps, from which the only major omission is enemies (Ok, that is quite the omission, but still!). It has been lying dormant waiting for 1.7.0 to come out, as it is dependent on this. Now that 1.7.0 is out it is time to release it - firstly you may find it running in your webbrowser at the below link:

http://thaines.net/content/naith/naith.html

Secondly, you may find the project, including the .p3d file, source, art assets and a few wiki pages below:

http://code.google.com/p/naith/

I suspect most of you will be able to guess the keys, but the wiki section contains a keymap page - might be worth looking at anyway as there are some 'interesting' key presses;-) Also, a warnings - it uses ode, and so requires the latest release that rdb just made if you are running 64 bit Ubuntu Linux. Its in the ppa, so a simple update should do.


Obviously its a long way from complete, but it would be a waste to leave it to rot. Also, I appear to have a bit more time now, so I am hoping that some kind of momentum on this project can be reignited. That is where you lot, the community, come in - I don't have the time to do all, or even a significant chunk, of this myself. The purpose of this endeavour is to create a game that demonstrates pandas capabilities - as in really shows them off, for which the code is available and neat enough for people to learn from (Current code base is not that!). The license has been chosen so people can fork the project and make there own fps-s (And potentially other genres) from it, though this is a secondary goal. You will note then that this is not intended to be a complete game, more like a very feature complete demo (Ideal really - biases the project towards programming rather than art, and there are defiantly more programmers around than artists!).

One thing I need to be clear about here is that this is not really a newbie project - I'll accept worthwhile patches from anyone, but before I give anyone direct repository access they need to show a certain amount of competence! Don't let that stop anyone playing with it or attempting to modify it though - I'm just trying to avoid spending all of what little time I have cleaning up other peoples work. Also, part of the goal is for this to be highly readable, so any feedback in that regard is welcome. Of course, I'll beg for real artists, or even half way competent artists - programmer art mostly sucks.
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Postby ThomasEgi » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:47 am

nice demo-app:) if you polish it up a little you could easily turn it into a 1st person puzzle game. i sorta like the unconventional level design for beeing quite confusing which makes things a bit more challanging
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Postby Nemesis#13 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:22 am

Neat!
Nice physics, awesome sea shader and great textures. Also I've thrown an eye on the code and it's amazing how much you can archieve with so little number of lines, and you don't even use all of the code in the samples.

Shooting seems to be a performance bottleneck, but as for this state, without any optimizations, it's awesome already.
There still are some bugs and glitches, but as for only ~3 people and the little time you had this is very impressive.

For everybody just looking at this: start with the last menu point: core level without sun. The sun darkens the whole level (what an irony) and slows down things.
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Postby lethe » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:48 am

ThomasEgi: I hadn't considered making a puzzle game - its always been about making something that looks good, which pushes you towards a traditional fps style game. Now that you mention it I might consider a quick diversion in that direction if I can think up of a good set of puzzles! I'm wondering how hard a gravity gun would be to make, and what kind of puzzles could then follow:-)

As for the level design - the original test level is not meant to be like a normal level, just a number of environments with a central hub, in which to test things. The cove level is basically a traditional 'opening' level - it makes you navigate, jump, crouch and explore. Its missing a lot of detail of course - I was intending it to have far more green, and various 'interest' points. If you climb up behind the boulder you can find the exit, though it currently drops you into the sea.

Nemesis#13: Yeah, its got more glitches than you can shake a stick at. The one that is annoying me the most is the character - try turning and moving at the same time whilst watching an edge. I just can't work out why. I'm thinking of just writing a new plugin to control the character to be honest - current one isn't so well designed anyway. Technically, the sun makes everything brighter - the problem is the tone mapping then makes everything really dark relatively speaking. I can't decide which I prefer myself - but yes, try out a cove variant first - the test level is boring except for some funky physics and the technically interesting use of portals, which you can't see unless you switch to wireframe (f7). Also, try f1 - brings up a developers console into which you can type arbitrary python commands, and access all the plugins.

btw - any of you get it working in Windows? My graphic card went screwy when I tried, though it technically did run - just took out the computer when I entered a level!
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Postby Anon » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:19 am

The p3d file from google code doesn't work for me.
All I get is 3 buttons for levels and a black background. When clicking one, the program exits (well I do see a logo for a milisecond)
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Postby Praios » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:21 am

i tried it in windows 7 (32bit) twice: in firefox the plugin's window turns black when clicking on any level button after showing the load-screen and in standalone it just terminates after the load-screen
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Postby Anon » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:34 am

Praios wrote:i tried it in windows 7 (32bit) twice: in firefox the plugin's window turns black when clicking on any level button after showing the load-screen and in standalone it just terminates after the load-screen

^ uh, same, XP
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Postby drwr » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:49 am

Looks very nice! I want to wander out into the water and look for sea life to shoot at in the cove level. :)

I suspect players who are reporting problems at startup are having trouble with the shaders. The p3dsession.log file from the Panda3D/log directory would confirm this.

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Postby lethe » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:51 am

Just had a closer look at windows - yeah, it don't run, and for a really stupid reason. Its using os.path.join... which creates windows style paths, which Panda of course doesn't like. Gaaar. Will fix and upload a new version shortly.
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Postby lethe » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:47 pm

Ok - just uploaded a new version - have confirmed that, at least for me, it works under Windows. (Well, every now and again my graphics drivers fail, sometimes badly, but I think that is just them. Its funny really - I've never previously found a computer where the Linux driver is more stable than the windows one!)

Anyway, could some other Windows people confirm that it now works?
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Postby astelix » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:09 pm

so nice - looking forward for better artwork,here my insightful contribute to the project - maybe one day we could have a revenue fee out of Spam company, who knows :)
Image

you may grab it here

keep up the nice work
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Postby Praios » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:10 pm

now it kinda works in standalone mode (didnt try in firefox) i could run around and stuff but then i got an error:
Image(i did the eraser)

btw: you could get textures from http://www.tellim.com/texture_cd/
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Postby Anon » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:28 pm

Downloading the new one now, I'll let you know how it works on XP.
from the screenshot looks like it could use a better gun as well (might make one myself...)
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Postby lethe » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:53 pm

Like the can of spam - I'm sure it will be of use:-)

The ODE error is almost invariably caused by the rotation quaternion vector of a body getting zeroed out, due to an object spinning too fast. Based on the screenshot I would guess one of those cans of spam is responsible:-) Thing is there are dampening terms and a hard cap on how fast they can spin, to stop this happening - somehow that system must of failed. Only happens due to ODE being compiled in debug mode though - compile it in release mode and it quietly ignores it (I only wrote the hard limit fix this morning, when I discovered that, unlike the Linux SDK, the runtime has ODE in debug mode. Its hard to see how I could of screwed up a hard limit though.).

Thanks for the texture link - I've seen that one before, but not sure how much use it will be - they are all far too clean for my liking. (And I live in a real grimy city, and own an SLR.)

Made the current gun myself, and yes, it is terrible, but then I didn't work off any actual guns or spend very long. Programmer art basically... Art offers will of course never be refused - rather pleased that so far both offers of help have revolved around art:-)
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Postby Anon » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:40 pm

I'm making a very lowpoly gun now:
EDIT: Image
Okay, maybe it didn't end up very lowpoly: 1446 triangles and 722 vertices. What do you think?
EDIT2: Image
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Postby lethe » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:08 am

Not bad - better than mine certainly. I wouldn't worry about poly count - ramp it up, get all the detail in and then it can be normal mapped if need be. Could easily take it to 10k before I'ld consider doing that though. It does need detail however - there is no shell eject, the clip doesn't look like it can detach (And ideally we would ultimately want a hand with a reloading animation in there.), you have a built in sight on the front with no matching bit on the back, and the grip and stock both need smoothing out - a bevel would probably be enough. It could also do with a safety catch and clip release, maybe even a shell ejection direction selector, plus some kind of manufacturer markings. A better texture would also help, with the inclusion of normal mapping and a gloss map. Dirt is a must - guns are not known for being used in clean places!

Yeah, I know that is quite the list - I'ld accept it as it is now, but if your up for doing more then please do:-) (I can always add to it myself - I'm fairly decent when it comes to texturing, if I put my mind to it. Plus other people could also come along and make improvements.)
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Postby Anon » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:52 pm

lethe wrote:It does need detail however - there is no shell eject, the clip doesn't look like it can detach (And ideally we would ultimately want a hand with a reloading animation in there.), you have a built in sight on the front with no matching bit on the back, and the grip and stock both need smoothing out - a bevel would probably be enough. It could also do with a safety catch and clip release, maybe even a shell ejection direction selector, plus some kind of manufacturer markings.

Well this is a wip, so I'll add those.
A better texture would also help

I'm not good at making a texture from scratch:
Image
for example this is what I came up when trying to make a wood texture
with the inclusion of normal mapping and a gloss map.

I have been modeling for about a year now, but never tried to make a bumpmap myself. Maybe you could link me to a tutorial or make it yourself after I finish the model...
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Postby lethe » Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:20 pm

Probably best I do the texturing then, including bump and gloss mapping - that is one thing I can do well:-) (Though you rarely ever start from scratch - first step is always about finding the right images to work from.) Looking forward to it:-)
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Postby Anon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:24 am

I'm sorry to tell you I can't finish the model. There are a number of reasons, lack of free time and reference (lol) being some of them.
Here is the model so far: http://www.mediafire.com/?jzzxyhmdaqe
The model lacks detail and is just wrong.There is no real texturing.
I hope it will be of some use, though I think you will end up remaking it :(
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Postby lethe » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:25 am

Oh well - I shall have a look. Thanks for trying at least:-)
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Postby astelix » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:31 am

well personally I find that gun pretty good - can't see how make it any better - thanks for share it Anon
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Postby Bradamante » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:24 am

Interesting.
First time ever propably that I see some advanced stuff in Panda interactively. In the browser I could not turn much because the mouse pointer would hit the screen borders after a while. Mac OS X.5.6, Firefox 3.6.

As a stand-alone app it worked better. Unfortunately one can not drag the window larger. And it's weird that one has to quit the runtime twice, the runtime is still open after the windows closes.

If you want, create a scene with these assets: http://www.mediafire.com/?modtlwkghin There is a pic included how I arranged them. Just make the water less blue ... :)

The SVN thing failed after a while:

Code: Select all
svn: Failed to add directory 'naith-read-only/game/plugins/pointlight': object of the same name already exists
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Postby lethe » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:47 am

I've never tested it under mac os x, as I don't have any macs - I can confirm that none of those issues show up under Linux or windows though. Strange about resizing the window, though if you hit f4 you can toggle full screen. (I presume that is p3d file only, but I haven't actually tested it so no idea what happens if you hit that when running the browser version!)

As for svn, no idea - it works for me, but then I never actually use svn (Ancient and antiquated way of doing things imho - I stick to git, which can pretend to be a svn client.)

Anyway, I shall have a look at those assets:-) - can't right now as am at work.
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Postby Bradamante » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:20 pm

Alright, with the runtime Panda F4 works for fullscreen. Coming from fullscreen back to window mode the new window is also larger then before oO

The SVN error actually is:

Code: Select all
A    naith-read-only/game/plugins/PointLight
svn: Failed to add directory 'naith-read-only/game/plugins/pointlight': object of the same name already exists


And indeed the folder on hard disc is PointLight, while the path is pointlight. Is that it?

Thats the problem with those packages, how is one supposed to look at the source now?
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Postby drwr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:53 pm

Mouselook mode doesn't work well in a browser on OSX, that's one of the issues still outstanding. (It does work fine in standalone, as you observed.)

The OSX runtime app doesn't quit itself when you close the last window. This follows the general OSX convention: most apps don't quit themselves when you close the last window. Although now that you mention it, I'm not sure that command-Q does the right behavior when you apply it to a window; it might only close the window instead of quitting the app.

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Postby lethe » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:05 pm

I had to change a bunch of directory names to lower case when packaging for some reason I still don't understand - I noticed that the, now deleted/renamed directories, are still in svn, so something must of gone wrong there. Doesn't affect me under Linux where pathnames are case sensitive of course, but for everyone else that is a problem. I'll have a look, though not entirely sure what my options are for fixing this!

As for looking at the source inside the packages its all compiled to pyc files, so you've got to go look at the repository I'm afraid, though you can have a look inside the repository using the multify tool, which can decompress a p3d file.
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Postby lethe » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:51 pm

Ok, directory thing is fixed - git, the client I use, is file based, and doesn't care about directories, hence the problem. Fixed it by deleting the directories using a real subversion client. (Also checked in some stuff I had forgot at the same time.)
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Postby Praios » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:29 am

If im not mistaken, at the moments naith is a "generic" fps. I think having some kind of theme could make it more interesting.

If youre looking for a theme for the game - why not make a C&C:Renagade-style game in Warzone 2100 universe. (eg Warzone:Scavenger or so)
There you could have big outdoor- and indoor-areas and all the show-off-stuff.
Also there would be models and textures (low-detail for a fps at the moment) which could be reused. Sounds and music is also there.
I started making a basic loader for Warzone-models at https://www.panda3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10155

There are some modellers in the warzone-community which could maybe be interested.

btw. i got the ode-error again:
Image
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Postby lethe » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:46 am

I think of it as more of a 'demo piece' myself, which is to say that it can have as many themes as it likes! Different themes for different levels as no coherence is really required - just cool stuff:-) Yes there was a plan for a Crysis-style sequence of levels, but we just don't have the resources, so really just a list of demo levels will have to do.

The one restriction I do have to insist on is that content is 'open', i.e. under a creative commons style license and with original modelling files available in a free file format so people can go and look at and edit them - conditions that the Warzone stuff does not satisfy.

P.S. I know what typically causes that error - its objects escaping the level basically. I thought that had been dealt with, but I'm guessing not.
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Postby Praios » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:59 am

I thought GPL would be ok.
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